# Feedback as a non-Krita artist **URL:** \ **Category:** Artists Feedback & Testing\ **Created:** [October 27, 2022, 2:29am UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379 "2022-10-27T02:29:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![marui\_mg](https://krita-artists.org/user_avatar/krita-artists.org/marui_mg/32/141378_2.png) [@marui\_mg](https://krita-artists.org/u/marui_mg)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 3:51pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/42 "2022-10-27T15:51:50Z")
I have worked in many programs, including those that you cited as an example. And I can agree in terms of setting the brush stabilizer, the workload of the interface. But the stabilizer itself more than suits me. I was annoyed that the brushes in CSP and PS are too slow, but on stabilization 0 in SAI and Krita everything is fine. For optimization, then it has clearly become better, and the brushes practically do not lag at 900px, unlike the same CSP. My CSP crashed often… Blurring occurs, but again, as you said, this is also inherent in other programs, especially if we talk about the pixel engine. But your whole tone is extremely unpleasant, so it’s not clear to me what kind of reaction you would like to see from other users. ---
**Author:** ![dk8](https://krita-artists.org/user_avatar/krita-artists.org/dk8/32/125419_2.png) [@dk8](https://krita-artists.org/u/dk8)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 5:26pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/43 "2022-10-27T17:26:23Z")
> [@isomizu](#): > > The replies to this thread have without a doubt proven to me though that Krita’s in a serious echochamber, and is only able to receive feedback from people who are deep into it and its community, people who likely have little to no experience with art programs outside of Krita. I went through several painting software programs and finally arrived at Krita from CSP. Now I only use CSP when I type text into images. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that Krita users and developers don’t have experience with other paint software, just that not many people are trying to clone CSP. (If you think that the ability to close gaps and fill them in is something that should be in paint software, I would love to see you implement it. I could only create an incomplete script.) > [@Gap Closing Selection Script (WIP)](https://krita-artists.org/t/gap-closing-selection-script-wip/45460): > > I created a script that automatically closes small gaps and performs continuous area selection. I made it with the help of many people on this site. Thanks to all of you. \ **Author:** ![Weblure](https://krita-artists.org/user_avatar/krita-artists.org/weblure/32/57286_2.png) [@Weblure](https://krita-artists.org/u/Weblure)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 5:48pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/44 "2022-10-27T17:48:08Z") I skimmed through most of this conversation, so here are my own thoughts on the matter. > “Krita devs are artists too!” > “But we did X instead of Y because **artists** asked us to!” I think the term “artist” is being thrown around a bit too vaguely here. I’m pretty sure OP is referring to _professional_ artists — people who draw daily and depend on drawing (and drawing well & efficiently) for their income. Naturally, someone who’s spent years learning how to draw seriously isn’t going to be relying on a bunch of complicated, janky bells and whistles that less experienced artists think are more important than the core of the program itself. Unfortunately, professional artists using Krita are far outnumbered by novice artists, so the former’s requests are going to take less priority since the latter will get more votes and vocalization. Even more unfortunate is the fact that the former are the most likely to invest funding in Krita’s development, yet are also the most prone to having their requests and complaints shot down by the masses… Which brings up the next issue. > “The Krita community is an ec **h** ochamber of white knights” From what [I’ve seen](https://imgur.com/a/cWDQad6) in my short time here, I have to agree. Especially when a moderator is acting just as/more childish than the OP ([and is really hung up on the term “_eco_-chamber”](https://imgur.com/a/RbkvO8k)). Yes, someone that’s been invested in Krita’s development for many years and relies on having a reliable, well-designed art program for their livelihood is obviously going to be upset and ‘have a tone’ when their valid points are trampled on again and again by hobbyists and clout chasers. > [@raghukamath](#): > > That server spreads FUD and bias against this forum. I don’t think think OP is biased from being on the Krita Discord server, considering that it’s ran by the same exact people that run these forums… yourself include. ---
**Author:** ![raghukamath](https://krita-artists.org/user_avatar/krita-artists.org/raghukamath/32/59144_2.png) [@raghukamath](https://krita-artists.org/u/raghukamath)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/45 "2022-10-27T17:57:56Z")
> [@Weblure](#): > > the most prone to having their requests and complaints shot down by the masses Do you have any example of this? > [@Weblure](#): > > Especially when a moderator is acting just as/more childish than the OP ([and is really hung up on the term “_eco_-chamber”](https://imgur.com/a/RbkvO8k)). You missed what I wrote at the end. Again being a moderator doesn’t make me non-human person or it doesn’t bar me from sharing my thoughts the way I intend to. I am not talking as a moderator here but as a user. here is what I wrote at the end. You proved my point that snark gets highlighted more even if the post has some other genuine points. > [@raghukamath](#): > > And sorry the snark in this post. I wanted to show you how snark becomes highlight of otherwise nice post. So please stay in this eco-chamber and may be give differing opinion and not make it into an eco-chamber in your view. > [@Weblure](#): > > I don’t think think OP is biased from being on the Krita Discord server, considering that it’s ran by the same exact people that run these forums… yourself include. I left that server, and it is not official server of Krita. it is not is run by me or anyone here. Yes there may be people who are here and also there. I am generalising that server just because they generalise this forum. > [@Weblure](#): > > Yes, someone that’s been invested in Krita’s development for many years and relies on having a reliable, well-designed art program for their livelihood is obviously going to be upset and ‘have a tone’ when their valid points are trampled on again and again by hobbyists and clout chasers. I don’t see OP’s request being trampled earlier you can look at their [post history](https://krita-artists.org/u/isomizu/activity) and see that they have not made any feature request prior to this and I don;t remember anyone shooting down their request at least here on this forum. Nor does Op say they use krita for their livelihood. they say they are an artist who doesn’t use krita. So your assumption is wrong. Do you expect everybody to say yes and I agree to each feature request that gets posted here or do you expect everyone to ask question and give ideas and discuss about it. Oh and welcome to the forum! ---
**Author:** ![isomizu](https://krita-artists.org/user_avatar/krita-artists.org/isomizu/32/57220_2.png) [@isomizu](https://krita-artists.org/u/isomizu)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 6:13pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/46 "2022-10-27T18:13:22Z")
> [@raghukamath](#): > > Do you have any example of this? Yeah. ![unknown](https://krita-artists.org/uploads/default/original/3X/3/0/3017f0a7d94b41996bce6a91d5d0297bd516ae98.png) ---
**Author:** ![marui\_mg](https://krita-artists.org/user_avatar/krita-artists.org/marui_mg/32/141378_2.png) [@marui\_mg](https://krita-artists.org/u/marui_mg)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 6:13pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/47 "2022-10-27T18:13:32Z")
I don’t mean to be rude, but your statement is pretty stupid. Firstly, in any program the number of novice users will prevail, this is a fact. Secondly, fancy features are a matter of taste. For example, I almost never use fills, preferring manual painting, but I like to play with colors and textures, what Krita does and allows me to do. Again, if a program does not have the features that you need, does not automatically make it bad, it is just different and it does not suit you, otherwise people would not have a choice between programs and would not look for their favorite … And yes, I’m not saying that now no requests from users should be taken into account, it’s just very time-consuming. If you already have all the features you need in the CSP, then why don’t you stay there? I ask without any aggression ---
**Author:** ![raghukamath](https://krita-artists.org/user_avatar/krita-artists.org/raghukamath/32/59144_2.png) [@raghukamath](https://krita-artists.org/u/raghukamath)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 6:15pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/48 "2022-10-27T18:15:10Z")
Yeah I remember that conversation. How is that shooting down your request though? I explained to you that text re-factoring is ongoing and how it is hard. Because you said text should be easy because it is implemented even in Microsoft paint. Also why do you think of me as the Dev. I make myself very clear that I am not speaking for the devs. So do you have any example of developers repeatedly shooting down your request apart from discord screen-shots that is not dev replies to begin with? Since we are posting screenshot from discord and all, here is the context for others ![Screenshot_20221027_235624](https://krita-artists.org/uploads/default/original/3X/9/b/9baed9747930fa23c8adc78a87a546e9a787f028.png) ![Screenshot_20221027_235723](https://krita-artists.org/uploads/default/original/3X/0/1/01da445fb2dd1a0ca800dfc4a3b89c606988c393.png) ![Screenshot_20221027_235754](https://krita-artists.org/uploads/default/original/3X/3/2/3254458d0a7a87dac7f8b63fa13cc5bf2244d5b8.png) ![Screenshot_20221027_235825](https://krita-artists.org/uploads/default/original/3X/3/b/3b69fff230c6e120a96993487676a6040563ed25.png) You were condescending then and you were condescending even now. I did not shoot down your request (even though it was a discussion not a feature request) I even said we should file bug report for things you find missing. The issue is you read the developer report and didn’t understand anything and went on a rant about how text should be easy to implement because microsoft paint has it. They are working on exactly the thing you want. A better text tool but you don’t listen to me and go on and on in your rant. ---
**Author:** ![Weblure](https://krita-artists.org/user_avatar/krita-artists.org/weblure/32/57286_2.png) [@Weblure](https://krita-artists.org/u/Weblure)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/49 "2022-10-27T18:44:32Z")
> [@marui\_mg](#): > > I don’t mean to be rude, but your statement is pretty stupid. Firstly, in any program the number of novice users will prevail, this is a fact. Obviously—the main difference is that most development teams know to filter out the noise, less their product fail by catering too much to the inexperienced masses that don’t actually know what they want/what makes the product good. > [@marui\_mg](#): > > Again, if a program does not have the features that you need, does not automatically make it bad, it is just different and it does not suit you, otherwise people would not have a choice between programs and would not look for their favorite … Again, missing the OP’s point. Krita already has plenty of bells and whistles. The main issues are with the core of the program itself—the lack of optimization, basic customization, a decent UI that’s easy to use without having to switch between holding your pen and using the mouse, and a bunch of bugs and general jankiness that makes using any of Krita’s tools a chore. These are fundamentals, not features. Really, the only feature OP talks about is the close-gap function, which… Has been requested by professional artists for years and has been at the top of the request list for quite a while now. But instead, the devs have been focused on cramming in more buggy bells and whistles which really aren’t going to draw in any serious users. Fixing the core UX of the program should come before the rest, because yeah, you CAN pop your art into another program if you just want a specific filter or something, so why rush to add those in? > [@raghukamath](#): > > Again being a moderator doesn’t make me non-human person or it doesn’t bar me from sharing my thoughts the way I intend to. Then you definitely shouldn’t be expecting any better from non-moderators lol ---
**Author:** ![Hollow404Art](https://krita-artists.org/user_avatar/krita-artists.org/hollow404art/32/45862_2.png) [@Hollow404Art](https://krita-artists.org/u/Hollow404Art)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 6:46pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/50 "2022-10-27T18:46:28Z")
As raghukamath as show in the discord screenshots, the attutitue isomizu shows is pretty off putting and at some points ridiculus. Its gonna take time to work on the text tool. I also have not seen any of the developers shooting down any request at all. When developers do discuss request, they usually: show the closest thing to it, a plugin that does what the request is, show the progress for that feature or show another post of that request. ---
**Author:** ![raghukamath](https://krita-artists.org/user_avatar/krita-artists.org/raghukamath/32/59144_2.png) [@raghukamath](https://krita-artists.org/u/raghukamath)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 6:49pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/51 "2022-10-27T18:49:08Z")
> [@Weblure](#): > > the lack of optimization, basic customization, a decent UI that’s easy to use without having to switch between holding your pen and using the mouse, and a bunch of bugs and general jankiness that makes using any of Krita’s tools a chore. These are fundamentals, not features. Nobody denied that should not be done. > [@Weblure](#): > > Has been requested by professional artists for years and has been at the top of the request list for quite a while now. But instead, the devs have been focused on cramming in more buggy bells and whistles which really aren’t going to draw in any serious users. Again is there a feature request thread for this. You say it is requested for years. There is feature request here on the forum about it and a volunteer dev is interested in it. What you call bells and whistles may be requested by others have you thought about that? You are basically saying prioritise what you think is important. > [@Weblure](#): > > Then you definitely shouldn’t be expecting any better from non-moderators lol Got it. ---
**Author:** ![isomizu](https://krita-artists.org/user_avatar/krita-artists.org/isomizu/32/57220_2.png) [@isomizu](https://krita-artists.org/u/isomizu)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 6:59pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/52 "2022-10-27T18:59:57Z")
> [@raghukamath](#): > > You were condescending then and you were condescending even now. I don’t really understand how I was, or am currently being condescending. In those screencaps I was just trying to explain why I don’t think artists will swap to Krita, as the developers seem to hope they will, and you were instantly spamming out messages and trying your hardest to incite an argument. Even now, that’s all this thread is. The only thing I’m honestly miffed about is the overall attitude surrounding Krita, the developers obviously want people to use it as a serious piece of art software, they’ve [gone out of their way to write an entire Google doc](https://docs.google.com/document/d/18ZL_DiMc3VdtcN_dCz_BTMn1fR3M72GuRw2E4ThRdiw/edit) or two outright saying they want CSP’s userbase, and there’s this constant air of “technical” superiority surrounding Krita. Yet, like I’ve already stated, this community is here to ensure that absolutely no feedback, criticism, or complaints get through to the developers. I don’t honestly care that much about Krita itself at this point, I just felt that maybe my feedback would be useful to the developers, especially since one of my friends who’s a long time Krita user urged me to air my grievances here about the software. Krita could easily be the best drawing and painting software out there, but it’s held back by lack of a clear goal, instead opting to please it’s pre-established fanbase rather than attempting to actually compete with outside programs. (While dismissing them and claiming to “already be better!” without substantial evidence) Basically, I’m upset that they’d go out of their way to say they _want_ to be a CSP killer, claim they want feedback from artists, only for the community to be here to belittle and dismiss us when we try our best to swap over. It’s not really my problem, nor job, to worry about Krita or attempt to make it better. That’s on the dev team, not the userbase. Sorry for trying to help in even the slightest. ---
**Author:** ![marui\_mg](https://krita-artists.org/user_avatar/krita-artists.org/marui_mg/32/141378_2.png) [@marui\_mg](https://krita-artists.org/u/marui_mg)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 7:01pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/53 "2022-10-27T19:01:09Z")
> [@Weblure](#): > > Obviously—the main difference is that most development teams know to filter out the noise, less their product fail by catering too much to the inexperienced masses that don’t actually know what they want/what makes the product good. I saw the discussion and I can admit that not all arguments against are objective, but there is filtering there. Considering, again, that not all functions from requests are taken into account, they are requests for that. > [@Weblure](#): > > Again, missing the OP’s point. Krita already has plenty of bells and whistles. The main issues are with the core of the program itself—the lack of optimization, basic customization, a decent UI that’s easy to use without having to switch between holding your pen and using the mouse, and a bunch of bugs and general jankiness that makes using any of Krita’s tools a chore. These are fundamentals, not features. I was able to set up the program and use only the pen of the tablet, here, I probably don’t understand you … > [@Weblure](#): > > Really, the only feature OP talks about is the close-gap function, which… Has been requested by professional artists for years and has been at the top of the request list for quite a while now. But instead, the devs have been focused on cramming in more buggy bells and whistles which really aren’t going to draw in any serious users. Fixing the core UX of the program should come before the rest, because yeah, you CAN pop your art into another program if you just want a specific filter or something, so why rush to add those in? I was not very interested in a specific feature, for the reason above, but I definitely read the discussion of the request, I don’t remember exactly when exactly, but this fall … and many agreed that the feature is needed, but again, it takes time. If a feature is requested for so long, then it was not a standard and not so much requested that it was noticed. As I wrote above in any program there are more new users than Pro artists. Let’s be honest with ourselves, developers look more at how many people are requesting a feature than what level an artist is. Well, given that there are artists among the developers, their experience should also be taken into account. ---
**Author:** ![sooz](https://krita-artists.org/user_avatar/krita-artists.org/sooz/32/93244_2.png) [@sooz](https://krita-artists.org/u/sooz)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 7:13pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/54 "2022-10-27T19:13:26Z")
This thread brings me back to my years as a manager in a large company. We actively sought employee feedback so we could improve. Managing that feedback was the hardest thing I ever had to do b/c ideas that were not implemented could make people feel unheard, or worse it could become fuel for the “you never listen to us” crowd. I never found the perfect way to tell people we wanted them to continue adding ideas even if we don’t implement all of them. The truth is, even bad ideas (not that anything in this thread is a bad idea) promote thinking and conversation. We need to keep making suggestions and at the same time realize that only a small percentage will make it to the delivery stage. That has to be okay. Just like the management team of a large corporation, the devs are making decisions using knowlege we’re not privvy to. ---
**Author:** ![Hologram](https://krita-artists.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hologram](https://krita-artists.org/u/Hologram)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/55 "2022-10-27T19:21:47Z")
Didn’t know the discord channel could get so toxic… I don’t suppose this discussion will lead to something good tbh. ---
**Author:** ![Hologram](https://krita-artists.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hologram](https://krita-artists.org/u/Hologram)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 7:27pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/56 "2022-10-27T19:27:23Z")
I can relate to that. No matter what software developers (or other support staff) do, wheter they are open or not, whether they respond or not. In the end, they always seem to get flak. ---
**Author:** ![Bleke](https://krita-artists.org/user_avatar/krita-artists.org/bleke/32/231617_2.png) [@Bleke](https://krita-artists.org/u/Bleke)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/57 "2022-10-27T20:01:53Z")
> [@isomizu](#): > > I don’t really understand how I was, or am currently being condescending. One example is calling something many people find useful “goofy shit”. I wouldn’t call anything that just because I don’t use it myself. ---
**Author:** ![TheTwo](https://krita-artists.org/user_avatar/krita-artists.org/thetwo/32/32836_2.png) [@TheTwo](https://krita-artists.org/u/TheTwo)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/58 "2022-10-27T20:07:22Z")
> [@isomizu](#): > > A lot of this comes down to simple QoL features and the overall feeling of the app, but for some reason, the main direction Krita development usually takes is extremely misguided and time consuming, typically adding a lot of complex and technically mindblowing features (which typically bring a lot of new bugs, and therefore additional work), instead of focusing on optimizing the actual _experience_ of using the app, you know, improving what’s already there. > [@Weblure](#): > > Again, missing the OP’s point. Krita already has plenty of bells and whistles. The main issues are with the core of the program itself—the lack of optimization, basic customization, a decent UI that’s easy to use without having to switch between holding your pen and using the mouse, and a bunch of bugs and general jankiness that makes using any of Krita’s tools a chore. These are fundamentals, not features. In fact, most “fancy” functions are provided by unofficial volunteers, which is very common in open source software. As far as I know, official developers have been working hard to fix errors and optimize performance: 5.0 resource system rewriting not only fixes the error that users of other languages cannot create resources in non English, but also makes krita’s startup and reading resources faster Lager based brush editor backend facilitates GUI changes in the future The reset of the text tool modifies the rendering method of the text. Before that, the text tool cannot be used for right to left or vertical text The built-in GMIC optimizes the performance of some systems, as well as errors in previous connection Modernization of animation tools and support of animation audio Android version optimization and bug repair (UI changes need to wait until after QT6) …… These developments are not very interesting and usually take most of the time. > [@Enclose and Fill Tool Proposal](https://krita-artists.org/t/enclose-and-fill-tool-proposal/31397/13): > > Maybe that’s because i’m not in the team and I don’t have to deal with all the really hard things, like fixing bugs, mantaining code, making things faster, dealing with different plattforms, and so on. I’m sure the official developers also want to implement several ideas they have in mind, but there are a lot of things that need to be done that are not directly apparent to the users, and the official team is small (very small). I’m just an artist by training who knows to code (self taught) so … The optimization you need may need to rewrite some part of the code, which needs to be done step by step. With limited staff, you may need to wait for a while.You used krita six years ago, but in fact, krita was not very good at that time: if I remember correctly, there were only two full-time developers at that time, and in 2017, it fell into an economic crisis. Now krita is getting better and better. A critical point like blender will come one day. ---
**Author:** ![Erisian](https://krita-artists.org/user_avatar/krita-artists.org/erisian/32/241933_2.png) [@Erisian](https://krita-artists.org/u/Erisian)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/59 "2022-10-27T20:14:51Z")
The way I understand it, (and I might be wrong) there was another well known open source graphics tool and its users were crying out for certain functions that the devs weren’t interested in producing. Somebody or bodies developed all those functions and offered them to the devs but they still weren’t interested. so these guys took the functions and created their own open source program instead. That program is what became Krita, so the whole foundation of Krita was built around what artists wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Grum999](https://krita-artists.org/user_avatar/krita-artists.org/grum999/32/66488_2.png) [@Grum999](https://krita-artists.org/u/Grum999)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 10:07pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/60 "2022-10-27T22:07:12Z")
wow… I stopped to read this topic, too much gratuitous aggression, it make me anxious 😧 I really can’t understand why people that are not enjoying the software for this or that need to be like this 🤷‍♂️ Twitter is already a weird place, if haters start to come here too 😢 Good luck for everyone here And try to stay calm and polite, it could sometimes help 😘 Grum999 ---
**Author:** ![Hollow404Art](https://krita-artists.org/user_avatar/krita-artists.org/hollow404art/32/45862_2.png) [@Hollow404Art](https://krita-artists.org/u/Hollow404Art)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2022, 11:23pm UTC](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379/61 "2022-10-27T23:23:28Z")
I also agree with Grum999, the amount fo aggression in this topic is pretty nuts much like twitter. There is no need to be negative about everything, there is already enough negativity in this world [Previous page](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379.md?page=2) [Next page](https://krita-artists.org/t/feedback-as-a-non-krita-artist/50379.md?page=4)