How do you use tags?

As many of you may know, resources system in the current Krita has some annoying bugs. We’re fighting right now to get rid of them. Because of that, we’re writing some parts of the system from the very beginning, or we have a very easy opportunity to change it to be even more convenient and easy to use.

Task on Phabricator regarding tagging, if someone wants to read a bit more: https://phabricator.kde.org/T12044

We would really like to hear what workflows you have with tags and tagging as artists:

  • Do you use custom tags?
  • Do you use the search/filter box at the bottom of the Brush Presets docker? If so, how do you use it? In which situations? Why do you use the filter box instead of searching in a different way: for example looking for the brush icon in the appropriate tag or even “All” category?
  • Do you use the feature to update the resources for the tag to all filtered one that appears at the end of the filter/search box?
  • Do you use renaming of the tag? do you use the feature “undelete tag”?
  • Would “All untagged” category be useful even if the brush would initially inherit the tag from its parent (since not all brushes need to be tagged)? Right now it seems to be great for purpose of retagging brushes after changing them, but that’s of course a bug we want to fix.
  • What other things you want to mention, maybe you have some ideas of improvements you’d like to see? Something to make tagging and untagging brushes and searching for specific brushes easier?

Note that all of those questions are about the tag system, which is what I’m working on right now. if you want to talk about which brushes you assign to which tags, please start a new topic in Lounge category, so this topic can be more focused on the system itself :slight_smile:

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Imma be honest with you, I don’t think I’ve ever used tags. However, now that you mention them, I went to see what they were about, and they’re really useful! I think I’m going to implement them nicely into my workflow :slight_smile:

As someone with a graphics tablet, every action that requires me looking at the keyboard is minimized to the best of my ability. However, tags seem really useful, so I’m going to use them just by filtering in the Brush Presets Docker drop down.

Renaming and deleting might come in handy, in case I do something wrong, but undeleting doesn’t seem all that useful to me really. However, other people might think otherwise, curious to see what other people think!

Fun fact: after typing this out, I went to test out the tags in the brushes, and deleted the wrong tag. Fortunately “undelete tag” was there! So yeah, I think it might be useful as a recovery method!

Regarding this question, I don’t understand what are parent brushes and how tags are inherited. Can you elaborate a tad?

Ok, correct me if I’m wrong, but when I right-click on the page, and the popup appears, there are no way for me to change the tag of the brushes. I think that that way could be more useful than switching back to the Brushes Preset docker and changing the brush there. Just an opinion :slight_smile:

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I just meant that if you make a new brush, you always base it on some other brush; there is no other way in Krita. So the idea is to make this new brush have the same tags as the brush it was based on.

And thanks for your answers!

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Oh, I see! I actually wanted to have a way to create a standalone brush, but I understand the logic, and it’s easy to do, so it’s not really a problem :smiley:

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Wait, I thought we can make new brushes from scratch, even though it’s a bit awkward to find when the presets panel on the left of the brush editor is collapsed. But when you click the “+” at the bottom you choose a brush engine and get a “blank” preset, at least that’s how it looks to me.

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When you right-click the canvas and the popup palette appears, there is a small circular icon that looks like a tag (just above the zoom slider). If you click this, you get a list of tags that you can select from, to make those tagged brush presets appear in the palette.
Since brush presets can have more than one tag, this is a very useful and flexible feature.
Settings -> Configure Krita -> General -> Miscellaneous: Number Of Palette Presets will let you control the maximum number of presets that can be displayed.

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F*** me, Krita keeps getting better and better. It’s one of those tools that keeps on giving, amazing.

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Yes, all the time! I actually rarely use the given tags.

Yes. There are a couple of brushes that I don’t use often enough to bother tagging them with my own tags, and since my brush preset list has become quite long and not all icons are easily distinguishable, and since I’m a pretty text-oriented person anyway, searching for the name is often the most convenient option, even if it means putting the pen down. EDIT: I should maybe also note that I don’t use the circular pop up thingy, just the brush preset docker, so I’m already in the vicinity of the search field anyway. :wink:

I wasn’t aware of this feature until now (the floppy disk icon made me expect something else), but it appears useful! Just recently, I imported a bunch of brushes that weren’t tagged but consistently named, and I hate untagged brushes.

Rename yes, undelete no.

Yes, super useful! Again, sometimes imported brushes aren’t tagged. I rarely make my own brushes, but I try other people’s all the time.

I’d like an easy way to see all tags that a brush is assigned to. Right now, I only have “Remove from other tag” and be aware whether I have currently selected a tag or not.

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So far only really one, to find the brushes I made myself, and some for brush packs that had none. I certainly will use more once my collection grows and it’s hopefully less buggy to edit.

I avoid that box like the plague because it:
a) doesn’t do anything I’d need when not in “All” category (and I rarely am)
b) messes up my tags without warning when I press enter as reflex, since most search fields I use daily don’t update as you type.

Not really, see previous answer. It’s not that it wouldn’t be useful, but the (to me) illogical/inconsistent search behavior just has me end up tagging wrong stuff, so I don’t.

Yes I renamed tags, didn’t need undelete yet but it’s probably a good thing to have.

Well not sure what is intended and just bugged, but I ended up having all of deevad’s latest brushes untaged, and hell yes, I would KILL for that category, I still haven’t hunted them all down to tag them.

Besides making the search field actaully filter the current brush category rather than it’s current behavior, I’d have to think about it if tagging could be made more convenient…

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That confused me at first, too, because intuitively I expected AND filtering, not OR filtering. OTOH, now that I got used to it, I actually like it because when I use the search box, I’m searching for something not in my “most used” tag (which I keep short enough not to need text search). Maybe making AND vs OR configurable somehow?

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@Rebecca @Lynx3d could you please read my comment here: https://phabricator.kde.org/T12044#211933 and say your opinion? @Rebecca how do you use the search field, do you use the advanced options as well and what do you think about the way it filters brushes, @Lynx3d what would be the logical and consistent behaviour for you?

No, I have never used any of the advanced search options. Just “brush name icontains the typed string” works well for me.

I just realised, the primary intended use for search box seems to edit the tags, so when you hit enter it updates the tag. Whereas I saw it “just” as a way to find a brush that I want to use without changing anything. I guess I got lucky that I never had the impulse to hit enter for my searches, because I would not have expected that to happen. So I really agree with your point 2 on the ticket.

In any case, I agree that AND filtering would be more intuitive, and even though I have come to like the OR filtering once I understood what was going on, it’s not super important to me to have that behaviour.

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@tiar, to me for a search field that operates on the current view (rather than showing results in some extra area), logical behavior is to filter stuff.
But it currently does so only when in “All” meta-tag, otherwise it merges everything it finds globally into your tag view, without any indication of what is a search result and what’s really in the current category.

Searching globally is not per se bad, but I’d prefer it to be optional and explicit, be it by some search prefix like “+somebrushes” instead of just “somebrushes” or in some other way configurable. Bonus if you can tell search results from the rest apart visually…

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+1 for this , it becomes hard to find what new brush that got added when I search. I would also suggest removing the enter to save mechanism and making it save only on click of the save button to avoid accidental saves. To reduce space it can be a search icon instead of a always visible input box, on clicking the search icon user will be shown the input box and he can just start typing like usual.

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I use two tags: “all” (always set in a presets docker) and one custom tag (always set on RMB pop-up).
As I hardly ever use any default brushes, the “all” is basically only there for me to find a preset, that I just created and assign it to my custom tag. I also store some old brushes there, before I finally remove them.
Answering some other of your questions, I never really use the search bar, as I have what I need in my custom tag and still find it more convenient to find my untagged, newly created brushes, just by scrolling trough the “all” category.

I use changing the name of my one custom tag, but just for bundle exporting purposes - I want people who downloaded my brushes have them in a tag with name and version of the set, and the way to get this is to assign them exclusively to that tag. I don’t use undeleting a tag.
“All untagged” can make it easier to navigate trough what is the most important for me - assigning new presets to custom tag. But if you think about brushes inheriting the tag (which is an awesome idea, and I want it) it’s probably not that needed.

My ideas for improvement:
creating one tag for the whole bundle - if someone shares their brushes, they all land in one tag (the name could be the same as the name of the bundle). This way, one can easily navigate trough new brushes they just downloaded, test them, and then assign those they like to their one custom tag (or tags, but as I see most people also use only one). It would separate imported brushes form each other, and the default ones, and would also make it much easier for brush creators - they wouldn’t need to worry anymore if all the brushes will be included in the appropriate tag. This way we would lose the ability to create more than one tag for exported brushes, but I don’t really think we need it so much.

Just realized it's not that much tags related and is a bit of an off-topic - sorry :)

I was thinking about allowing users to change the sequence of the presets by drag and dropping the icons (currently the way to do it is to assign numbers to the beginning of the preset name, which isn’t too convenient), but I figured out, that allowing it only in the RMB pop-up would be quite enough. This pop-up have so much potential, but I guess lots of people don’t use it, as they don’t know how they can change the number of presets included, and how to assign their own ones there. So maybe allowing to easily change the order, drag&drop from the docker to add the brush to the currently active tag, automatically changing the number of shown presets to the amount of presets in a tag, would make it an easy to access way to switch between presets?

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I tag set of brushes I’ve made over time, it’s like having a jar with all my brushes in that way.

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  • Do you use custom tags?
    -> Yes, I have a lot. I divide them by tasks, bundle, and sometimes project.

  • Do you use the search/filter box at the bottom of the Brush Presets docker? If so, how do you use it? In which situations? Why do you use the filter box instead of searching in a different way: for example looking for the brush icon in the appropriate tag or even “All” category?
    -> Sometimes but not often. I find it easier to scroll along the “all” section because I have a sense of the order of where everything is. If there’s a particular set of tags that I want though, I’ll use the filter box. I find that the drop-down menu sometimes glitches out and duplicates tags, which makes it less viable to use that to find my desired brush.
    Beyond that, I use the filter box for very esoteric tags that I use for specific projects.

  • Do you use the feature to update the resources for the tag to all filtered one that appears at the end of the filter/search box?
    -> This is interesting! I had no idea this existed but the responses here seem to suggest that this would be useful for mass updating untagged brushes. I’ll give this some use and report back.

  • Do you use renaming of the tag? do you use the feature “undelete tag”?
    -> I don’t really use renaming, I just stick with the original tag name and remember what I used it for. This is the first time I’ve heard of undelete tag, but I can imagine this is useful for recovery.

  • Would “All untagged” category be useful even if the brush would initially inherit the tag from its parent (since not all brushes need to be tagged)? Right now it seems to be great for purpose of retagging brushes after changing them, but that’s of course a bug we want to fix.
    -> Yes, absolutely. Bonus points for this category is being able to more easily experiment with a new bundle right away, since it seems that they’re generally untagged.

  • What other things you want to mention, maybe you have some ideas of improvements you’d like to see? Something to make tagging and untagging brushes and searching for specific brushes easier?
    -> I would really love to see a menu/docker specifically for tagging. My use for it would be to mass-assign tags to brushes, since right now it appears to be one-at-a-time or through filtering.
    -> The manual seems to suggest that tags were meant for more than just brushes, since you can assign them to workspaces and beyond. I think it would be cool if opening a new workspace defaulted to a brush tag in the brush preset docker. Might be a setting that would fall under a “tag management” docker?
    -> Love all the work and attention you guys put into Krita. Thanks for asking us for feedback and suggestions <3

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Do you use syntax like: “Paint”, or syntax like “[Paint]”? and do you use multiple search words at the same time, for example: “Paint,Texture” or “[Paint],[Texture]”?

Yes. Although for some resources adding them, searching for them etc. is disabled, but could easily be enabled if needed.

That’s a cool idea, although it might be a bit hard to implement and confusing for new users… Also I’m not sure if default workspaces would divide brushes all that much for this idea to make sense in default settings. Maybe it would be better implemented as a Python script?

My syntax is “paint, texture”. I don’t mind the format being the same as the brush names, since I don’t have any tags that are named the same as a brush, and my tags are generally shorter than a brush name.

For combining tags in filters, I generally do it if I want to copy a style I did in a different piece, but mix it up with a few other brushes. So it’ll be like “magicScene, ink_2, wet_paint” to get the brushes I used in “magicScene”, and the brushes from ink_2 and wet_paint to mix it up.

Funny you mention that, I’ve been thinking about writing a script up to make the tag management docker that I was talking about. The manual has some stuff on making a docker, but I don’t know how to access and edit the tags of a brush or resource from Python.

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I use it all the time :slight_smile:

I think stuff like adding shortcuts to switch tags could be nice , to change brush set in docker on the fly

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