Non-English Postings

I am trying for the first time to ask a question with automatic translation only

KRITA-ARTISTS.ORG recommends the use of English.
Speaking in your native language is not forbidden, but you will be asked to correct yourself.
Therefore, it is anachronistically difficult to get information about KRITA in any other language than English!

The point is that translation is not a panacea!

The topic of tag on language has been raised in this place before, but it did not lead to a lively discussion.

People in my country have a huge Photoshop and CLIP STUDIO community, but I don’t know of any space for krita questions and conversations.
What do you think of the possibility of inviting such wanderers to this place and having KRITA-ARTISTS overflow into multiple languages?
Would you welcome it or puzzled?
Do you think it would be better to create another place?

This question is just a curiosity to understand the people of this place.
I respect that English is used for a reason.

Hi

We try to help everyone

If people don’t ask question in english, I won’t be able to help :slightly_smiling_face:

Also, if a solution is provided in a language other than english, I won’t be able to learn the solution

English is not my native language, but it’s the most common for everyone
And if I’m not sure to understand or how to translate something, I can easily use a translator

Using a translator from french to japanese, I can’t confirm the translation make sense
Using a translator from french to english, even if it’s not perfect I’m able to determinate if translation make sense or not…

And, on your side, what if most of topics where written in french or german?
I’m pretty sure that, like me, you won’t try to translate every topics by yourself and will miss interesting conversation :upside_down_face:

Grum999

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This is a difficult problem to solve. We could have a sub section of the forum to handle various languages but then it will be like a silo and hard to moderate we would need moderators from all the languages we have.

For now what I suggest is post your queries in your own language but add english text underneath it.

I would like to hear thoughts from our members like @TheTwo @tysontan who interact with non native english speaking community too. There are some korean users too here. We have members from all over the world. So please tell us your thoughts

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This works great.

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I appreciate all of your help.
I don’t necessarily need English speakers to help me every time I speak in my native language.
We want an environment where it is easy to get together and help each other in the same language.

The reason I insist on non-English is that everyone will first look for a solution in their native language.
If they cannot solve the problem in their native language, those who are persistent will use English. But many do not.
Then, they will not accumulate krita tutorials in languages other than English. The gap in knowledge between English and the rest of the world is widening.
For non-English speakers, this place is a big silo they cannot see inside, and I feel every day that the biggest barrier to using krita is language.

So I would like to hear from different people.
I don’t have an idea established either, but putting both languages on board is a good idea.

One thing I want to ask, is there a language change in the settings of the KRITA-ARTISTS website?
If I want to use English, do I have to set my browser to English each time?

Also, we should be able to disable all topics from these sub-categories from latest view, otherwise it will start to be really difficult to follow what happen on forum :sweat_smile:

Grum999

2 Likes

I recently joined a Mastodon instance (to see what it’s about) and I have to ignore most of the timeline because the posts are non-English. This is understandable because people join that place to express themselves, in a natural and comfortable way.

I think what you’re asking for is a translation plugin, or presentation layer, for the browser and I think that such a thing exists but I don’t know the details.
Someone else may know about that.

@Grum999 As a matter of interest, how would you feel about a French language forum, ‘artistes-krita[dot]org’ where French speaking people gathered to post their artwork and ask for help and advice etc, as a social and mutual assistance environment?
Feature requests and development suggestions would be a tricky thing to deal with I’d imagine.

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I don’t think Krita Artists should handle every language under the sun. This place is supposed to be the international communication hub for everyone. We need to use a common language, so that everyone can understand each other.

English is the most widely used common language, because almost every country teaches English as a second language. The people who are most likely to help you here are the devs and the core community members. But it’s likely they can only communicate with a foreign person using English, too.

People often underestimate the effort needed to maintain a useful translation and sustain a healthy community. How much % has Krita the application been translated in your language? What about its documentation? Without those, you don’t even have a common ground to establish meaningful conversions in your language.

Krita is already a niche enough project in itself, because only artists are using it. We can barely hold up as a whole, and don’t have the manpower to handle things like this. If we allowed subdivisions of languages, it will only break apart our already small combined strength.

Look no further than Wikipedia. The size and the average education level of the userbase of a specific language determines the healthiness of a localized community. Most languages there are just desolate ghost towns.

I think each language should instead build their own localized community independent of each other, using platforms that are familiar to each country.

In Krita’s Simplified Chinese community, I handle the translation of the app and the documentation and the websites. Other people moderate discussion groups on various local platforms, share experience, resources and our artworks. Community moderators relay translation related issues to me. Community members who can speak some English relay other issues to Krita-Artist forum to reach the devs. Sometimes I report complicated bugs for them because my English is more fluent. You may find your own way, suitable and realistic for your local community.

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I agree with this.

@akitu If you think there is enough demand. you can build a community in your local language with the platforms popular in that area. That way the work is distributed.

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As a official forum, the posts here should let most people understand, communicate, and easily find answer from anyone, in my opinion.
There are some local krita community, but the userbase is not huge enough to let every place very active, unfortunately.

Speaking of Clip Studio Paint, I remember there’s auto machine translation in their forum. Every time I visit will see it translate English to broken Chinese - harder to read than non-native language :melting_face:

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I searched for this thing of automatically translating things to local language via translation software, but it is expensive and not data privacy friendly, so we can’t enable it here.

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The site itself, not the plug-in, determines the user’s language and displays the partially translated language.
However, I find it easier to translate if everything is displayed in English, so I looked for the language setting.

currently the forum software tries to get your language from your system’s or browsers locale settings. I enabled this to ease the usage of site for people of different region. If it is bothersome we can shut it off and restrict the UI to english as default, but people can change it themselves.

Yeah, I would rather people write with their native language. That way, at least I can put them in several translation service to piece together a more readable version of it.

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I probably won’t use a such french forum :sweat_smile:

Like for development or technical related things, I only go on english forums because it’s the best place to get answers.

When french users ask questions here in french, I try to provide french+english answers because:

  • subject/answers can be interesting for everyone
  • I may not have solution and theb an english speaker can help

Grum999

2 Likes

Personally, I will ignore posts in other languages.I really don’t think there is any problem in letting users use English. People who really know nothing about English can’t pass the test of kikiBOT, so they can’t speak…

This is an interesting problem that I missed.

Edit: I just checked Kikibot gives the welcome test in the users locale. And users do respond to it.

I don’t think adding language tags or categories is a good thing, it’s an international community.
Purely native language topics can make international communication difficult.
This creates language barriers for both the questioner and the helper.
If users need help in their native language, they should go to the local community.
If there is no local community in the user’s area, it should be established.

I think it is good to use English + native language in topic content.
(If the title is too long, the title should only be in English.)
This can facilitate some users who are not good at English to understand the words of users who are the same as their native speakers.
It also facilitates communication between people of different native languages.

edit.
For someone like me with very poor English, web page translation is very important.
And the browser’s web page translation function doesn’t handle a bunch of different languages well.
The browser’s web page translation function is better for pure English.

You should join or build a local community.
So you have what you want.

As for native language tutorials, I’m actually offering some native language tutorials.
Others in my local community have also made tutorials in their native language.
Instead of waiting for others to provide native language tutorials, make them yourself.

As far as I observe my local community.
Users who have very poor English and can’t or won’t use browser web translation don’t want to come here.
They will choose to communicate in the local community.
There are also some users who are just too lazy to register and feedback problems…