Am I evolving backwards?

[roberts.draws]

Hello!

I just had conversation with my friend, he is not art expert and I just wanted to ask him about my latest (todays) painting, and we both agreed that it sucked. Anyway, right after that he told me that my bird paintings are quite good, and then I told him that it is because of “Birds of Prey” course by Aaron Blaise I am taking at the moment so that is why these paintings look good, after that I told him once I will be done with the course and I will have to paint birds on my own (without watching course again) they will turn out garbo. He replied “with that attitude of course it will turn out this way”, I then said do you remember my first digital painting (which by the way was also from Aaron Blaise tutorial), he said no, then I showed him >

So, you now wonder where I am going with this story? So, here it is, I then showed him my last lion I did (2024) on my own which resulted in this >

Side note: I have not re-watched lion tutorial video again, but I plan to, the result is first picture.
Also I have to add that the first lion I did from tutorial was made in 2020, does that mean I have forgotten core details although I often use reference photos when I create paintings.

What is wrong with me? I need advice on this.

But at the same time I have never watched any dog course and this is what I made couple days ago…

I really have no idea.

[Takiro]

I moved your topic from tech support to “art support”.

Evolution is a one way street. Something evolves from one thing into another and never back, (and even if it will be something different still than what it once was), unless maybe you’re Digimon. So, no you are not evolving back with your skills, it’s just that you change as a person and so does your art style. Sometimes it becomes simpler, sometimes not, and sometimes something completely different. It is also normal that you don’t perform the same all the time, sometimes your on a high and do really well, sometimes on a low and both can last days or sometimes months but it passes eventually. We all go through this eventually and especially when we’re in a big transition with our art styles it can sometimes feel as an all time low in that time, because that’s when you question how you do things, are unsure if it is the right thing and try new stuff you’re not as experienced with. It was the same for me when I went from drawing to painting but ultimately I came out even better at the end, and it certain it will be a similar experience for you.

[roberts.draws]

Thanks for reply,

You know i get sad that most of the time my art looks worse than before. It blows my mind that last couple dog paintings i did were kinda good, but todays work is basically trash. I feel down that I can’t perform the same way, because I look up to this artist who always draws and always paints the same way and it warms my heart seeing his works, but once I do something like that, one piece looks nice and then other looks horrible. I remember I made pet protrait for my cousin in 2022 I think and sketch was okayish but when I started to colour it, dear God, it was not the same haha. Not sure if I am good offering people pet portraits because I dont know if that one piece will be the good one.

I also feel stupid that I have to re-visit previous tutorials because I somehow cannot grasp all information to remember every detail of specfic animal.

By the way todays painting >

[ynr_nohara]

I think if you want to make an objective observation of your skill development by looking at your artwork that were made in 2 different time, you need to be aware of the variables you have and were in when the artwork was made.

How many support support references were used, do you have to use new techniques in the recent one, is the tool setup different? but the most important one to be aware of is the mental condition you had when making those artwork. Did you draw in tired state, or maybe stressed, or maybe you had a long vacumm of not drawing before the doing the recent one.

There’s also an “Eureka” moment to count, where you get a boost of inspiration and everything seems fall into place smoothly. In my personal opinion trying to gauge your skill just by looking at some artwork you’ve done is not a good idea. I think as an artist consistency is more important but just by changing a theme of the artwork you can introduce a whole new challenge that either change or adds variable of difficulties. Only if you draw the same thing again and fumble then you can say, “yeah I forget how to do it” (devolving)

---

Btw the difference between the lion on top and the recent lion is the value distribution. The new lion has this sun on the opposite of the viewer that makes this what seems to be flat dark side on the side of the lion that is in front of the viewer. This is actually not flat, there is subtle variation that still convey depth in the dark area.

Compare to the old lion, the old one has great value distribution that convey depths nicely. So in short, changing the light source position is already a change in difficulty. I usually have the same problem if the ref I used is low res, which make it harder to differentiate value level in dark areas. Or my eyes just not used to the light scheme that I could not detect this subtle change of value so I tend to just see dark area as just a flat plane. So try to zoom in the dark areas, hopefully you can add those subtle variety in value and create the right depths.

Hope this helps

[Hawklin]

I kinda also know how this feels. In the military, there wasn’t much time, but I was always interested. Shortly after, I had more time on my hands so things improved quite a bit. Never figured I was really good compared to a lot of others, but happy with my progress.

Then I somewhere grabbed a life+30 pickup and suddenly I’m 50+ finally able to stop (all the stuff that could go here, LOL) and start working on what I want.

Now that I am back, I am in “erase that and start again mode” though I feel I shouldn’t be. As an engineer, I get all the tech and fancy lingo but I remember what it was like to get messy in paint.

Since its been so long, there is a bit of ‘muscle loss’. At least for me, it seems. It doesnt take too long to build again, but when you draw a circle and it looks like anything but, it can make a down day worse. Sometimes it just doesn’t seem like it’s there yet. On the other hand, if I would use references more, I imagine I would improve faster, but that’s probably a different story.

Two things that help me, most of the time, at least get through a piece is to consider letting what ever is happening paint with me. I take a short moment to kinda extend an invitation, so to speak. Sounds corny probably but it works for me. This of course can lead to some of the stormy paintings, but at least I get it out. As a writer, sometimes I would “write it out” instead. Something like the artist creates what they feel as much as they create what they want.

The other is to kinda think like @Takiro mentioned and see if it’s a new path that I am discovering. Its a path, I walk along for a bit and see if its worth exploring. Am I seeing things differently?
Is something else happening? Sometimes it really doesn’t have much to do with the subject as much as it does (somehow) a process where I realize I let something go, even if I couldn’t explain what that thing was. I feel lighter when I’m done.

I am not sure if this is an actual quote but it feels like it, though I couldn’t tell you who said it.
“Sometimes I paint what I can. Sometimes I paint what I want. Sometimes I paint what I see. I tell you, though, I always paint what I feel.”

With these two things in my tool box it helps me take a step back and look at things. So far, I am not quite time free to do as much as I would like, but I have been able to do the monthly challenges. Not super great (or maybe even close) compared to some folks I’ve seen here (amazing artists you guys are) but the second is loads better than the first one I did after nearly 30 years away from the pen. I also have my “Cat in the Matte” floating around out there.

As for a bit of the technical look, if I may. I agree with @ynr_nohara. I would have picked a darker color or two for the lowlights on the darkside. Where you have the ribs shaped and the hind leg, for example. You need the details there sure, but a mid to dark transition would look like it makes more sense. It still keeps the shape defined but could also allow for a more furry affect where you can drag the lighter color over the dark a short bit to give more that furry feeling like in the mane. Dark contrast is just as powerful as the highlights.

Anyway, for what it’s worth and hopefully it’s helpful.
HL

[Takiro]

@roberts.draws

It blows my mind that last couple dog paintings i did were kinda good, but todays work is basically trash.

I won’t iterate about my points that you shouldn’t judge your overall skill by daily performance. If you think your current artworks are trash, pull yourself together and find out what makes you feel that way. Go through all your artworks of the past and make note what made them good and what made them bad in your oppion, write it down. Not just “it feels worse” but the specific objective thing. Could be: Lighting does not match light sources, anatomy mistake in hand, colors too dull, has too less details, has too much. Level of detail does not match focus/distance) all this things, also doo this for the things you like, then you can really compare. Don’t listen to your feelings alone or they will betray you. There is a reason we artists call it “studies”.

@roberts.draws

I look up to this artist who always draws and always paints the same way

It’s good to have a target but for measuring your progress the only artist you should compare yourself too is yourself. And not what you did last month or year but more like, 5 to 10 years ago. (This kinda depends on how much you practice, I only paint a few times a year nowadays so it wouldn’t make much sense to compare myself to last years me but when you practice every day you most likely improve much faster so you could take a shorter time span into account)

@roberts.draws

always paints the same way

When did it happen that artist’s pursued being stuck, honestly? I see this more often in recent years, also on this forum it was asked often enough how to “keep a persistent style”, and I’m always like, why would you even? When I was starting art in my art community (mostly Anime stuff 20 years ago) it was still important to know (and since we were fanboys and gals) tried to reproduce as many different styles of other artists as we knew, how many different tools we were able to handle and it wasn’t too important how good we were with them. This is how we build or own styles eventually. Portfolios were build to show how many different things you mastered (or worked on). Being “consistent” equaled to being stuck on your artistic journey. Like visiting the same place on vacation every time and wondering why you didn’t see much of the world. Don’t make yourself down just because you are not always painting in the same way. I say, embrace it instead.

Like @Hawklin wrote, you are exploring different paths and sometimes your are on one that has a few more pot holes. But it is key to know that you can just leave and try something else, you are not forced to stay on this uneven path (you still have to know first what you don’t like, though). Eventually when you explored a lot you find a beaten path, one you always returned to after trying things and that is were your consistency will someday be, with all the skills you acquired on the other roads.

For the example pictures. The main difference is the level of detail that is highest with the dog and lowest with the lion in the middle. Most importantly the level of detail basically matches the background which makes the subject not stand out any more and makes the whole thing less interesting. Compare this with the doggo where the lights play with the fur and give it a really nice texture. I think that’s why I always prefer to draw furry and scally things over humans because human skin is just boring, for the most part.

[roberts.draws]

How many support support references were used, do you have to use new techniques in the recent one, is the tool setup different? but the most important one to be aware of is the mental condition you had when making those artwork. Did you draw in tired state, or maybe stressed, or maybe you had a long vacumm of not drawing before the doing the recent one.

Um, do you mean how many references were used for first lion or the last? For the first was only tutorial video in which the artsit shows step by step and explains drawing into painting including all details, but in last one I just picked single reference and tried to replicate it “the best way I could” so to speak and that I have forgotten key features of the first lion when i did it, it basically turned out this way.
So, when I decide to create art basically is like this, in previous day I try to think about the subject i pick and then try to focus on drawing/painting it, and if I can manage to get in mood then next morning I wake up eat breakfast and start drawing.
If I feel tired or stressed then I skip that day of not drawing at all. You could say that I dont draw lions that much actually. before this recent I did this one back in May, 2024 >

I know dumb idea.

Only if you draw the same thing again and fumble then you can say, “yeah I forget how to do it” (devolving)

To be fair, I dont like to draw same thing over and over, well not more than 2 times in row I then get bored of it, and here lies the problem, the less i draw same subject the less i remember key features of it. How to overcome it? Maybe I should create cheat sheet for myself key features of different animals.

Btw the difference between the lion on top and the recent lion is the value distribution. The new lion has this sun on the opposite of the viewer that makes this what seems to be flat dark side on the side of the lion that is in front of the viewer. This is actually not flat, there is subtle variation that still convey depth in the dark area.

Yes, that is true, I know that darker side is never completely flat, there are muscle and whatnot. Since reference photo does not show that I then have no idea where and what to add so it turns out like this.

[roberts.draws]

@Takiro

I won’t iterate about my points that you shouldn’t judge your overall skill by daily performance. If you think your current artworks are trash, pull yourself together and find out what makes you feel that way. Go through all your artworks of the past and make note what made them good and what made them bad in your oppion, write it down. Not just “it feels worse” but the specific objective thing. Could be: Lighting does not match light sources, anatomy mistake in hand, colors too dull, has too less details, has too much. Level of detail does not match focus/distance) all this things, also doo this for the things you like, then you can really compare. Don’t listen to your feelings alone or they will betray you. There is a reason we artists call it “studies”.

Oh my, that will be bit too difficult to go through all my 230+ paintings over 5 years.

@Takiro

It’s good to have a target but for measuring your progress the only artist you should compare yourself too is yourself. And not what you did last month or year but more like, 5 to 10 years ago. (This kinda depends on how much you practice, I only paint a few times a year nowadays so it wouldn’t make much sense to compare myself to last years me but when you practice every day you most likely improve much faster so you could take a shorter time span into account)

Yeah, I know that I should compare myself to myself. To be fair that top lion was from 5 years ago, i dont really practice lions that much, but is not painting something still as practice over all?
Also when I start drawing/painting something I then try to finish it in same day, yes i tend to take break for ~10 minutes and then return.

@Takiro

When did it happen that artist’s pursued being stuck, honestly? I see this more often in recent years, also on this forum it was asked often enough how to “keep a persistent style”, and I’m always like, why would you even? When I was starting art in my art community (mostly Anime stuff 20 years ago) it was still important to know (and since we were fanboys and gals) tried to reproduce as many different styles of other artists as we knew, how many different tools we were able to handle and it wasn’t too important how good we were with them. This is how we build or own styles eventually. Portfolios were build to show how many different things you mastered (or worked on). Being “consistent” equaled to being stuck on your artistic journey. Like visiting the same place on vacation every time and wondering why you didn’t see much of the world. Don’t make yourself down just because you are not always painting in the same way. I say, embrace it instead.

He is ex-disney animator and that is his style even to this day and people calling it “disney” style even though it is the artist himself.

[edgarej]

There are tons of graphs of artist skill progression. it looks like this;

The graph is pretty self explanatory. We all go through moments when our ability to see our technical skill goes off sync with our actual technical skill. Those moments can lead to times of frustration.

Just power through it, you are doing fine.

[roberts.draws]

That is really helpful, so overall it means that I should study the subject i am interested in painting.

[edgarej]

Experiment with style and technique too. When I looked at your recent pic I can’t help but feel that you are sub consciously wanting to experiment with tecnique/skill application.

You can continue painting animals if that is your passion subject, but I highly encourage you to find other ways/experiment on technique. Try even painting non-digitally… draw on paper, crayon if you have to. Do anything to break the monotony so when you go back to your regular technique, things would feel “fresh.”

[roberts.draws]

I do tend to draw on paper from time to time, I even consider to return to one of courses i bought 6 years ago, draw with chalk and such, to be fair it is way easier to draw on paper because those usually are sketches and not detailed works, so any animal would look better than drawing it digitally. I drew two pigs and they look better than the lion.

[ynr_nohara]

@edgarej wow thank you for sharing the graphs , put a better insight on my condition also.

@roberts.draws The first half of the previous reply was actually trying to persuade you to not care much about having a “bad” painting. There are many variables like the ones I gave example to, that can make the painting process harder than usual. The important part is having consistency in your work. If artist skill level can be represented as a number it always be n(±)x, there’s high point and low point based on variables of difficulty, and we can’t control all of the variables. So just keep drawing, have a more positive outlook even if the painting process looks bleak and seems not improving ever . The ability to self assess the problems in our work and device a fix is several times more difficult to do without positivity and optimism.

I have similar problems and being frustrated again and again almost become a norm to me. It is still hard to keep being positive when there’s quite a challenge to tackle in a condition that is not always “optimal”. But understand that most of the time it is not “devolving” problems.

[Takiro]

@roberts.draws

Oh my, that will be bit too difficult to go through all my 230+ paintings over 5 years.

Well, improvement takes some effort, you know. You could start just checking the images where you started to notice your decline and compare them with an equal amount or time from before. Perhaps this help already. I wrote that a shorter amount can work out too, if you practice a lot.

@roberts.draws

He is ex-disney animator

and probably doing it for more than 30 years or something. But I bet they can still draw in other styles if they wanted to. That’s the beaten path I was writing about earlier, but you’re not quite there yet, is my guess, so you should not limit yourself by trying to stick in artificial style borders you set yourself.

I know it’s frustrating to not live up the your own standards. I’m currently at this point too. But I’ve ben through it many times and I always came back as a better artist. Sometimes my style changed, sometimes it was just my workflow that improved, sometimes I became more efficient and sometimes I learned to work with a completely new medium. If you always keep working and really want to improve, you will eventually improve.

[roberts.draws]

Thank you for your positive feedback. I know what you are saying it is just hard to grasp right now. I do try different subject, I painted a flower for the first time, dunno if the style is different but it is something new to me. The flower is not perfect but at least I like it, haha.

[edgarej]

It looks great!

[KNap]

With the lions, it’s true that the first one looks better, but:

• it’s a lot more detailed than the second one, I guess you spent a lot more time on it.
• it has a lot of things hidden. We only see the head of the lion and a part of its body - no paws, no tail, most difficult parts were just not shown. On your second painting you tried showing all of the difficult parts as well.
• similar to the previous point - the first lion didn’t have much of a background, it was only implied with dark tones on top, brighter on the bottom and a few blades of grass. On the second one, you painted a much more complex background. It’s much easier to paint simple things than the complex ones. You can’t make mistakes while painting the ground if you don’t paint the ground. That’s why increasing complexity may seem to lower quality.

That’s the thing you progressed in a lot - painting more complex images.

[Elixiah]

@roberts.draws
I feel the same way most of the time about my art. I’m still trying to figure out why some of my pieces look way more advanced or professionally painterly than others. I do know that I seem to be more satisfied with pieces that I had no real intent for anything other than practice. I was less concerned with accuracy and detail… which leads me to believe I need to spend a lot more time doing speed painting. I know for certain that has helped me more than anything.