Feedback for “wide gamut color selector”

[TheTwo]

I recently tested krita-nightly-x64-5.2.0-prealpha-a4d177379b，and see the new color selector

It performs well, but I have some feedback and suggestions:
1.It seems that it causes many plug-in conflicts. When installing some plug-ins, opening krita will pop up several prompt boxes, and its “color history” function cannot work properly.（I’m not sure whether this is a normal change or a breach of the API）

2.At the same height of docker, its color wheel is smaller, which means it needs to occupy more space：

3.When I adjust the color, it can’t feed back to the slider in real time：

4.I think the equilateral triangle is the model of hsl, not HSV

5.As for the style of triangle, I think it needs to be changed, or just add a new style: white at the top and black at the bottom. There have also been some posts on this topic before.

6.As for the shape style, I found that hsv missed two things compared with “advanced color selector”:

And here are some other styles, circle and diamond.From this discussion, I found that they have many fans.

7.Since the foreground color and background color are added to the new color wheel, I think the “drag to canvas” function can be enabled for them. It is better if color history and image color can have it.

8.Color wheel of okhsl and okhsv.
They are innovative and futuristic, and have stable shapes.They are more suitable for ordinary people than oklch.
![image|388x400]

[Lynx3d]

@TheTwo

1.It seems that it causes many plug-in conflicts. When installing some plug-ins, opening krita will pop up several prompt boxes, and its “color history” function cannot work properly.（I’m not sure whether this is a normal change or a breach of the API）

I need more information to give an answer. Do you mean Python plugins?
What prompt boxes, and which history? Of the plugin?

@TheTwo

2.At the same height of docker, its color wheel is smaller, which means it needs to occupy more space：

Well there is room for improvement of the docker layout, but comparing 4 shade sliders with 3 on the other side is not fair
Though the selector needs a few more pixels of margin to function properly for technical reasons, that’s unlikely to change til 5.2 release, because it needs restructuring that potentially introduces lots of small bugs.

@TheTwo

3.When I adjust the color, it can’t feed back to the slider in real time：

Well that was on purpose, during the resource rewrite for 5.0, updating the current color “globally” was rather slow. It’s good that it performs better now, but is instant update really essential? It will still come at a performance cost…

@TheTwo

4.I think the equilateral triangle is the model of hsl, not HSV

No, it’s definitely HSV, you can see it on the shade sliders…

@TheTwo

5.As for the style of triangle, I think it needs to be changed, or just add a new style: white at the top and black at the bottom. There have also been some posts on this topic before.

Yeah that would be the HSL variant, I opted for the “diamond” shape because it actually offers a bigger area to select from, but I guess due to popular demand, I’ll add the triangle as option.

@TheTwo

6.As for the shape style, I found that hsv missed two things compared with “advanced color selector”:

Well I always wondered who added those, or who would use those, because they are not functional…they don’t offer the full range of saturation and value for a given hue, darker saturated colors are simply missing.
I’d suggest to use HSL with diamond instead.

@TheTwo

And here are some other styles, circle and diamond.From this discussion , I found that they have many fans.

The top one also looks weird to me, the bottom half of the diamond seems entirely redundant, it offers no color you can’t just pick on the horizontal center line

The bottom one looks more interesting…I’ll keep that one in mind, I may actually need it for L*a*b*/Lhc because that one is a bit challenging gamut wise…

@TheTwo

8.Color wheel of okhsl and okhsv .

The problem with Ok-whatever is that it is only defined for sRGB (from what I understand), that makes it somewhat incompatible with the idea of a wide gamut selector…

[TheTwo]

@Lynx3d

I need more information to give an answer. Do you mean Python plugins?
What prompt boxes, and which history? Of the plugin?

Yes, they are python plug-ins. Among the plug-ins I installed, four plug-ins made by EyeOdin and Grum999 had problems.

@Lynx3d

Well that was on purpose, during the resource rewrite for 5.0, updating the current color “globally” was rather slow. It’s good that it performs better now, but is instant update really essential? It will still come at a performance cost…

Well, I have never felt that it is very slow, but I often observe the linkage between values and graphics to try to find out the law of coloring…

@Lynx3d

No, it’s definitely HSV, you can see it on the shade sliders…

@TheTwo

5.As for the style of triangle, I think it needs to be changed, or just add a new style: white at the top and black at the bottom. There have also been some posts on this topic before.

Yeah that would be the HSL variant, I opted for the “diamond” shape because it actually offers a bigger area to select from, but I guess due to popular demand, I’ll add the triangle as option.

I understand. I used to treat them as the same thing. But through experiments, it is true that the original triangle is more compatible with the hsv slider.
Just add a new triangle to the hsl.

@Lynx3d

Well I always wondered who added those, or who would use those, because they are not functional…they don’t offer the full range of saturation and value for a given hue, darker saturated colors are simply missing.
I’d suggest to use HSL with diamond instead.

You’re right. I just found them missing during the test and didn’t actually use them. They are missing half of the color gamut and decoupled from the meaning of the model. I tend to ignore them.

@Lynx3d

The top one also looks weird to me, the bottom half of the diamond seems entirely redundant, it offers no color you can’t just pick on the horizontal center line

I think it is just the rotation of the hsv square… but I found that many people are its fans in the discussion.

@Lynx3d

The problem with Ok-whatever is that it is only defined for sRGB (from what I understand), that makes it somewhat incompatible with the idea of a wide gamut selector…

This is a pity, and I also have no way.

[Grum999]

Hi

@TheTwo

Yes, they are python plug-ins. Among the plug-ins I installed, four plug-ins made by EyeOdin and Grum999 had problems.

Concerning this one:

@TheTwo

I may have to fix the plugin for compatibility

Concerning other errors, message indicate the problem occurs in krita core dockwidgetfactory.py
This is a problem that should be fixed in krita

Grum999

[Lynx3d]

Ah those Python errors don’t seem related to anything I did.
I guess they were triggered by the upgrade from Python 3.9 to 3.10.
Those look like errors in the plugin that just got tolerated previously.

[EyeOdin]

Well on my side I tend to only worry with bugs when they hit the stable versions. Nightly versions sometimes do break so it is hard to use it as a benchmark to work around it.

But there is a new thing breaking my scripts on the new krita versions at least which is the float versus integer thing that I only have reports of from Linux so I can’t really check their validity.

I already converted timer watch and imagine board, but I am still missing it on the others. If the live version of pigmento is breaking it might have to wait I have been working on it for months and it has alot of bug fixes already. Correcting the live version would just be a pain.

I acctually downsized my repositories count to handle each of them better and be able to streamline their quality.

[wolthera]

@Lynx3d

The problem with Ok-whatever is that it is only defined for sRGB (from what I understand), that makes it somewhat incompatible with the idea of a wide gamut selector…

That’s not true (thankfully), what’s more likely is that the most easy to find algorithms merge the OkLab<>LMS<>XYZ<>sRGB conversions into one mega conversion for folks unused to color who’d find XYZ/LMS too confusing. At some point (if I ever get out of text layout), I want to implement CSS color 4, which has OKLab defined in it’s conversion section (this is in fact the reason everyone is talking about it, web designers are trying to understand CSS color 4), though I am currently unsure if I will implement it similar to HSV/HSL/Etc. or instead have a YCbCr color profile with these transforms.

[Lynx3d]

I would have to reread the paper, but from what I remember the transform involved some parameters that were manually puzzled out specifically for sRGB, which made me assume that applying that to other RGB primaries would at least partially lose the superior value distribution over HSY’ and others.

But if you have fun spending time on that, I’m all for it!

[wolthera]

Yeah, when I look at the official github page it immediately goes ‘ok, here’s it for sRGB’ and then rambles on about perceptual uniformity compared to other spaces, so I don’t blame you.

[SchrodingerCat]

@TheTwo

5.As for the style of triangle, I think it needs to be changed, or just add a new style: white at the top and black at the bottom. There have also been some posts on this topic before.

Yes, I would like this triangle to be added as well.

[tom]

I too also agree with having an option for an inverted white-black range (perhaps to the level of making it default behavior for the triangle selector).
I don’t use the triangle selector much myself, but the current triangle orientation is one of the complaints I’ve seen about Krita, especially as it often doesn’t match up with triangle color selectors in other software. Not only that, inverting the range would help it match up a bit with the square selectors, which tend to have black on the bottom.

I also recommend adding an option to disable the shade sliders/selectors as I and likely many other users never use them.

The Color Model selector is a bit annoying to use, as clicking outside a button despite clicking inside the menu closes the menu.

[Konstrukto]

From the monthly update, version 01 thread

@Konstrukto

Curiosity about this docker actually made me install the latest unstable nightly.
I have been playing with it shortly and what I immediately like about it is that it kind of combines the functionality of the advanced color selector and the artistic color selector.
Ideally it would be nice to have these two dockers integrated into one (maybe a stretch, but just imagine also being able to set a gamut mask in this docker’s settings instead of having a separate docker for it).
I also really like how the ring makes saturation and value choices less intuitive, although that does take some getting used to.
So far I haven’t ran into issues, except that I noticed that I need to load a file for the color wheel to appear.

I do have a request which would make a general color selector even more appealing to me:
I don’t know how much of a hassle it would be to include, but I work on different computers so would really benefit from color history being included in the save file.

I snuck in quite some requests, I know, but I do see this as an opportunity to reduce docker cluttering, above all I’m very pleased with this one so far!

I would like to add that a downside of the docker is that the shade selector isn’t toggleable like it is in the advanced color selector docker, I for example never use it and it is a bit in the way

[Lynx3d]

@Konstrukto

I would like to add that a downside of the docker is that the shade selector isn’t toggleable like it is in the advanced color selector docker

Oh you’re right, good that you remind me. Some things are unfinished, also because the commit limit for merge requests from forked repos was reached…

I still haven decided how to handle the MyPaint shade selector option. Would people ever want both shade selectors active at the same time or should I keep it as None/Minimal/MyPaint option?
It’s not really more work to just offer both as optional elements independently…

[raghukamath]

The wide gamut colour selector and also the colour selector in the tool bar shos two square when using a CMYK colour profile. The advanced colour selector however shows proper circular colour selection wheel.

It becomes hard to select colour with two squares so it would be good to have proper shape here instead of two divided colour selectors.

[raghukamath]

The colour history boxes both on canvas popup and the docker don;t give proper colour when clicked. there is some offset to the colour that is shown in the boxes and the actual colour. For example if there is red green blue yellow clicking on red might give you yellow or some other colour which is in second row or some thing.

[Lynx3d]

Assuming you are using more than one patch line, the issue should be fixed.
(mentioning your settings would really help…)

Regarding CMYK, you can set a custom selection color space to get an RGB selector. Though maybe it would be better if that setting was per color model.

I could think of a ton of customization settings, but I’m afraid it’ll become rocket science for most users at some point

[raghukamath]

@Lynx3d

Regarding CMYK, you can set a custom selection color space to get an RGB selector. Though maybe it would be better if that setting was per color model.

Can’t the CMYK space have triangle and colour ring same as the RGB one. I do not request for customisation but retaining the shape of the colour in CMYk same as the RGB one would be good. Right now if I have CMYK document the colour selector has two sqaures which is confusing.

here are my settings for the colour history

[Lynx3d]

CMYK are 4 channels, I don’t know of a way to reduce that to 3 channels, which means there is no HSV- or HSL-like transformation with identical gamut like for RGB (or LHC for Lab, which I want to add at some point).

[corvian]

Here are my thoughts on the wide gamut color selector:

1. The square HSV selector with hue slider is my favorite one, but right now the hue slider can’t be made static like the circular one. Bug? Oversight?
   

   

2. My second favorite is the triangular one with circle, but it really should work like in every other program - white on top, black on bottom, vertically positioned to left, like in people’s screenshots above mine. It will also be consistent with the square one.

3. As suggested there needs to be a way to disable shade selector. It’s useless for me and others.

• I like how the hue slider is to the left, next to the grey, that is smarter than it being on top. Don’t change it.

[Sake]

There’s a small bug in Shade Selector options:
Having it set to 1 Line Count will hide the Range/Offset option when you reopen Shade Selector options. Changing up or back to 1 will unhide it until you close/reopen options again.

Also, instead of disabling completely, an option to hide shade selector on the Docker while keeping desired options for the popup Shade Selector would be cool.

Edit: Popup Color Patches and Auto update in Color Patches > Colors From Image are just a placeholder currently or broken/not working?