Option to get a warning message if saving to non-.kra file

I know everyone hates Gimp’s approach to not be able to use Save with anything else than its own native format. I would hate it too, considering I often would use Gimp (when I was using it) for small things like cropping and I wouldn’t need any xcf files, I just wanted to save to whatever I opened.

Still, when testing, or doing redlines for people, or opening some other files I find myself making this mistake of saving into .jpg or .png only because I thought it would be saving to .kra (I always use Save Incremental Version, I kinda thought it’s kra-only…). Or maybe I haven’t checked it. Or something like that. It happens very rarely - and that’s why I’m not alert for that, since I’m not used to check my extensions - but it does happen and recently I lost some of work because of that.

My suggestion

My suggestion would be to have an option in settings (disabled by default) to always show a warning message if it is using Save, Save As, Save Incremental Version and Save Incremental Backup as anything else than .kra file.

Since it’s optional and disabled by default, it won’t disturb users who’d be annoyed by that or don’t need this kind of warning. Since it’s just a warning, it will still allow me to save as .jpg or .png that I might need when I’m doing some testing etc. or when I don’t care about layers etc. I think that would be a good solution.

    • Yeah, I would like that
    • Nah, I don’t need it
    • I’m indifferent
    • I would prefer some other solution for this issue

0 voters

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I think it might even make sense to have it on by default - so new users are alerted to the issue of saving in a non-native format, and experienced users can easily switch it off.

And yes - it did annoy me when they added that particular feature to GIMP.

It was a cool program once upon a time - in the GIMP painter days… :roll_eyes:

Possibly even have the switch in the dialog itself so it’s easy to disable?

2 Likes

Not everybody hates GIMP’s approach to that and I still use it for constructing-editing-modifying images and for fancy text :slight_smile:

2 Likes

I just think it’s a bit heavy-handed - almost aggressive in its implementation.

I feel choice is an important part of the open-source ethos.

The problem is because user is using save instead of export. And since save replaces the current working document with the newly saved one the user keeps on working on the jpg or png. We also should be educating the user that there is a different option for exporting the file into other format than the default one.

Also saving into other format is deliberate action by the user so he knows that the files is going to be saved in jpg or png. We already have a warning system which shows which of the elements in the kra are not going to be saved for example when saving psd you get warning listing the incompatible elements. May be we should integrate this type of warning in other format as well, we already have jpg save option dialog may be we can utilize it to also warn user.

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I’m also of the mind that this is only an issue if you embrace poor/lazy workflows. If you want to work on an existing image, you should be importing it as a file layer, especially for things like red lining, then if you go to save, it will be defaulting to kra and you won’t have this issue. Then once your work is done, or at a point where you want to share it with others, you then use export, which won’t change you away from your kra file when you save like normal. I really like the current setup, it took me a bit to figure it out, because it isn’t well explained, but it is vastly superior to GIMPs nonsense.

EDIT: Thinking about this though, it would be nice if the drag and drop function, for opening an image on the main screen when you start up, gave you a pop-up to choose between opening as is, or importing as a file layer. And I suppose the same sort of functionality should be there for any time you go to open a non-kra file, it would save the extra step of manually matching resolutions and creating the file layer and choosing the file after the fact. So I suppose my vote should have actually been for the different solution. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Or people can just once click the “Also save as .kra” checkbox and then you get both the png and the kra file saved.

I’m really not a fan of extra warning message boxes both because they are bad usabilty because they add clicks and because people don’t read the warnings anyway…

(Note that until we ported from Qt4 to Qt5, all message boxes had a “never show this message again” checkbox, but that was lost in the porting to Qt5/KF5, but that would be more elegant than another option in the settings dialog.)

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I will gracefully skip the accusations of being uneducated, lazy or having a poor workflow and get to the point :stuck_out_tongue:

@raghukamath @boud In the workflows I am talking about the warning system, checkbox “save also as .kra” and “conscious decision to save as a specific extension” don’t help, because they don’t happen. It’s only good when the user starts the image from scratch, not from existing .png or .jpg file. Let me describe two situations I was in recently:

  1. I was helping someone see the differences in values on their picture better. I opened the image and marked all the areas they should be paying attention to. The marking were on a separate layer so I could erase parts of it, add new etc. In this scenerio I was mindful enough to save as .kra and export as .jpg; but if I wasn’t mindful, I would just use Save Incremental Version as usual and lose it.

  2. I was working on a guide “what is tracing, what is referencing, what is inspiration”, I used David’s pictures for that. Since it was a bigger project, I was using Save Incremental Version to “save non-destructively” as I think of it. However I didn’t notice that the current extension is .jpg, since I started from his picture, so Krita saved it “nondestructively” as picture_001.jpg, picture_002.jpg etc. So in this case I lost data while doing everything as I always do.

  3. This is not a scenerio I don’t really get since I don’t use “Save” at all, so ctrl+S is useless for me. I always use the menu entry, btw. But there is lots of users who are using ctrl+S since it’s a common shortcut. When you create an image from scratch, you first need to consciously choose a format, but if you open an existing image, the format will be chosen for you so ctrl+S works silently. So again, for users used to use ctrl+S and they open existing image that is not .kra, they might find themselves in a dataloss situation without realizing.

So my main problem is not the situation when the user needs to choose which format to use, but when Krita saves silently. For me personally “Save Incremental Version” should work like backups and autosaves, meaning always save as .kra, since I trust it to save non-destructively. But I’m not sure if other users would like that. So I would like to have an additional safety check that will ensure that Krita is not silently saving in a format I don’t want it to. I want to be nagged and stopped in my thoughts and forced to think if it’s correct in the situation I’m in (cause in my workflow, it usually isn’t).

@boud note that my initial idea clearly stated that it would be disabled by default. I don’t see it as bad UX if the user needs to enable it themselves. And yes, a dialog will distract me and change my thinking process from the art to the UI and saving and technicalities, so I believe it would help me.

@Uradamus File layers have some downsides, for example I need to choose which mode it should be in, while when opening it in a new document sets everything correctly: the dpi is correct, the size is correct, the color profile is correct. When I need to first create an image in the correct size and color profile and then import the image and then think which mode is the correct one that will fit the size I chosen, it gives me lots of additional steps. I don’t get why the workflow of just opening the file would be wrong in the situation I explained for example in 2).

Oh btw, I want to mention at the end that what I’m thinking of is less of a warning box and more of a confirmation box - like you need to click OK to ensure Krita that that’s what you want.

2 Likes

Pardon me if I sounded like making an accusations, I didn’t mean it.

I tried this scenario. I took a screenshot and added layers and scribbled on them and then I tried to save with Ctrl + S and while it was saving as jpg it specifically warned me with the following dialog box

This dialog box does say that the user might lose information and you even have a option to save as kra.

I now tried to the save incremental on this file. I agree this time it silently saved the file. I don’t know If it will be good to show dialog box like we show when we save it with ctrl + s

Ctrl + S shows the warning message as well as provides an option to saves as kra

I think the issue lies in save incremental and not about ctrl s

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Don’t worry about it - you’re in good company! :upside_down_face:

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Well I am quite indifferent to it as long it is not a extra annoyance you have to clear. If it’s a option you can disable I am cool.

Regarding a Gimp’s method it is aggressive but I think it to be very efficient. Since the Save then holds all the information you do there. And would be the right way to go. All that was a accident but I have seen so many people doing poor choices because of saving in jpgs and such. Gimp would solve all that.

However after reading why your wanting to do it. If your so inclined to make like a double check thing why not create a kra file next to the kritarc file that contains you last save/export done in Krita instead of a constant popup thingy. You could have like the silent kra save and have a load last save somewhere in the options to access it? Maybe it could replace the ~ files or something donno.

I know that case was an unfortunate accident and I know I might sound mean but I see so many reports of people having issues with saving that think it might be worth considering saving correctly in the place of the user instead or in parallel.

A warning will not stop people from messing up :frowning:

It would stop power users from messing up. For the beginners, there is no fool-proof system :stuck_out_tongue:

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