But we’re not talking about AI generated images, and don’t pretend like you don’t know the difference because I read your comment acknowledging the difference above. That seems pretty ill-intended from your part.
It’s all unethical for the same reasons, let me state a few:
- It’s trained using lots of data where consent was not given for that purpose
- It’s trained for the explicit purpose of replicating human creativity or knowledge
- It’s only possible to run the “best” models via some big corporations, putting them in positions of power
These apply to code, images, video, 3d models, writing, and many many other things.
I think it’s counterproductive to draw a line between those. We should be against them all at once, as a unified front against all GenAI.
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Well you are not prohibiting from using it because you can’t, since Krita is open-source. It’s very clear that you would if you could. But that’s a lame attempt to avoid my question. Will you forbid people from talking about the cure of cancer if it was discovered by AI? I don’t understand why something useful that can improve the software and works, and no one is claiming copyright infractions about, has to be censored? Just to hypocritically commit to the AI hate?
Alright, I see how it is.
Do you think your beloved CSP used AI to develop it’s features? Just wondering. Anyway,
I used many AI models. I think you’ve no idea of the extent of my knowledge, and that’s fair, but assuming… yadda yadda. Do you need like, research papers showing how all variations of AI mess with your head, how it’s dangerous but not because it’s “agi”? No? Do you need links or can you look things up on your own?
I’ve used genAI. I’ve used many, many text models, and I’ve used things from Claude to the bajilion others held in the huggingface repos. I used them, and wanted to test the waters. As a non-dev, I quickly realized that it didn’t really help me learn, but it sure as hell taught me how to get 5 years of tech debt in 5 hours.
On that note, since you’re so dead set on shielding yourself with ill/disabled folk: have you hear med professionals opinions on machine learning in their fields? Have you seen it perform?
I think you need more research and not just yelling “AI hate!!!” into the ether. If you’re so bothered by the rules of a site, just make another one. It’s open source. You can just use AI to help you, no?
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From what I have been reading on this topic the only thing is that prohibited specifically on the forum is posting plugins and tools with integrated AI, dependencies running of AI, or AI generated code. You can still use such stuff within your own Krita build since the license allows you to fork Krita anyways as its Free and Open Source.
The AI thing is like a double edge sword though, while there has been some beneficial stuff made as listed by sergio_holden, there are also ethical, environmental & legal issues pointed out by luminyan.
I also separate AI into both “practical” and “impractical” AI where the practical AI would be things like live translate or content summarizing dozens of pages of text into a readable format while the impractical AI would the the GenAI that uses data without any sort of consent of the original creators.
While I don’t use GenAI because of the ethical, environmental & legal issues and how its affecting creative fields in a negative manner the more practical AI like the live translate and content summarization is helpful since my general though process is scattered all over the place and using such content summarization consolidates it down into readable bullet points or step-by-step numbers list.
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First, I reject your idea that Krita forums needs to be some kind of “ethics” police, because although we can agree in some objective ethics like not using copyrighted materials which is also ilegal, ethics are mostly subjective. For example, I could say that Krita using a bot to send me notifications is unethical since that’s a job that could be done by a human who could then maintain their family, and it also puts a cold machine between the user and the community. Should Krita adapt to my view on the ethics, or only yours?
Even if your narrowed view on ethics that 99,9% of software developers today don’t agree with and just consider extremist and narrow-minded, your points are wrong:
It’s trained using lots of data where consent was not given for that purpose
Different AIs train on different materials. There are AIs that train only on consented/copyrighted material, like Adobe Firefly. There are enough public software, free and open-source, to train a model since they’re so well-documented that AI learns them better. And Github is allowing people to prevent their repos to be used in the training.
It’s trained for the explicit purpose of replicating human creativity or knowledge
Again, there is not only one AI. Every AI can be trained for different reasons. You’re demonizing a technology that has no thought or intent, it just exists.
It’s only possible to run the “best” models via some big corporations, putting them in positions of power
You can run your local model if you want. If that model is not the best, that’s not the corporations’ fault. But look at this comment, people are using big models just to help on big data analysis, and using local machine for the changes. The technology that you’re demonizing is actually giving the power back to the people.
I think it’s counterproductive to draw a line between those.
You’re just an extremist and you in no way represent actual artists who actually want MORE tools that offer them a better working software, no matter if they were made by AI or the devil himself.
Have you ever even talked to artists before? They pretty universally hate GenAI.
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I don’t get how luminyan is an extremist for not wanting to use GenAI stuff with the listed ethical, environmental & legal issues with GenAI. Also can’t software be made better even without AI involved?
There’s also that massive RAM and GPU card shortage that occurred because AI companies were buying so much of it for data centers. Computer prices are so high right now, I would be less rich with a bar of gold instead of extra RAM sticks and a GPU card.
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Don’t you see how absurd that rule is? I’m a Godot dev so I know nothing about Krita’s code and honestly, I don’t have the time or care to learn it. So I used AI to help me create a “Z-index” plugin that allows any layer child to show on top of its parents without modifying its position, immediately solving countless issues. I used folders and clones layers to achieve that, since Krita’s API is so limited (maybe it wouldn’t if the devs were competent enough to use AI). This and many other plugins work great and allowed me to move linearts and shadows with a single button without reordering the layers. So I wanted to share it with other in the only place where it would make sense to share it, the official Krita’s forum.
The plugin was removed by @sooz because I said I used AI. The same plugin, without saying anything, or having been made by someone who invested months working on it, would be able to be shared. But since I used AI, the plugin is bad, even if it solves an issue that Krita doesn’t solve and will never solve.
And sorry, by according to the forum tyrants, no AI is ethical even if it’s improving the lives of millions.
So I want everyone in here to give me their word that you will NEVER, under no circumstance, cure your dogs from cancer with the vaccine mRNA vaccine or any of its derivates that were invented and are being worked on by AI.
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We’ve been making software just fine without GenAI. If anything GenAI has accelerated the downward spiral we’re in when it comes to software quality.
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I’m closing this topic because it becomes too general of a discussion about AI, please use the existing AI related meta thread for that.
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