I understand your point and your stance which is different than mine. I’d still want to know if it’s possible to support the programmers directly.
EDIT: if I could just get a “yes” or “no” from someone on the team that’d be awesome.
I donno that might cause favouritism and popularity choices for support. I don’t think that is wise.
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There are two sources of income for Krita: sales in various stores, and donations. Ramon is paid from sales; @dkazakov is paid from donations. Donations are also used to get test hardware and, under normal circumstances, to get developers to meet face to face.
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I used CSP EX for some time but ended up with Krita. I really like the UI because it is simple and accessible. Krita loads very fast on Windows. There is no useless launcher. Also, with Krita I have everything in separate config files on disk. No cloud clunky stuff. That’s enough for me as a reason 
… I am a simple man.
What I really like about Krita is the community. I always learn something new, because people here openly tell about their workflows and help each other (I hope I can give something back someday). I also like that the artists here are so diverse. It doesn’t matter if you are a beginner or a professional, everyone contributes with their style to the fact that you always see something new and that can be very different - also fine art, not only things that sell well at the moment. I find that exciting. In general, you have the feeling that you can simply write to every artist and developer here. The CSP community in comparison is so unapproachable, which is perhaps also due to the fact that the program originally grew up in Japan. Many articles in the knowledgebase are only available in Japanese (same in the asset store). A lot is probably just machine translated as well. This is just noticeable. Also the easy exchange with the developers here are great.
I think it’s great that everyone is having fun here and everyone is contributing somehow. The developers are doing a great job. Thanks to all of them ! 
…
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This is Google Translate.
In non-English native countries, I think the local language translation level of open source software also affects people’s choice of open source software.
I also understand that the translation of open source software needs someone to contribute in order to exist and become better, but for people like me who have a bad English, it is really difficult to choose the open source software that is good in itself but lacks good translations.
The good thing, though, is that there’s no limit to the number of translations we can ship, and that there’s nothing stopping anyone from starting to translate Krita in their language, or improving existing translations.
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This is Google Translate.
Yes, krita’s Chinese translation is very good. A good Chinese translation makes it easy for Chinese people like me with poor English to use krita.
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My two cents here, of course based only on my own experience in a country where pretty much 99% of the industry (advertising and audiovisual) is using pirated software. 
Number one reason, at least here in Colombia, is cultural. I’ve yet have to know a local studio or ad agency that pays for all the software they use. The last time I worked as an employee in an ad agency EVERYTHING was pirated, even WinRar! Blender was the only legally downloaded piece of software in that place lol.
Now that I work as a freelance people seem surprised when I tell them that I actually pay for the Adobe subscription, or Netflix, or any streaming/cloud service; even if the Adobe subscription model is shitty, I prefer to pay for it instead of downloading pirate copies, because I make money with their products, but for most people here, paying for something that can be downloaded for “free” from a torrent site is a sign of weakness. “El vivo vive del bobo” is a popular saying here, which roughly could be translated to as “The one who cheats wins over the fool that doesn’t”
And with that cultural belief comes this way of thinking: if people can just pirate pretty much anything you can think of, then what’s the point of looking for alternatives? Under that logic there’s no need to. So people just don’t bother doing it.
Then comes number 3 on your list. I still have to use Adobe products only because everyone else in the advertising industry is using it, and my wife needs it for work as well. For personal projects, or projects where I don’t have to deliver editable files I work mainly on Krita, Blender and DaVinci Resolve; but when I’m part of a team working on bigger projects, is almost always a requirement to not only know Adobe software really well but also deliver all the files in those formats. Also, unfortunately, there’s still not a solid, viable alternative for After Effects. 
About #4, Industry standards do exist, whether you like it or not. And those standards have nothing to do with the quality of the software or being the better choice, but with the way these big companies have been lobbying for years to force entire industries to use their programs. Is not an illusion, the fact that you cannot get to a certain point in your career without using these programs is a very real thing, that of course depends on what career you choose but is very evident in the motion graphics and animation fields.
For example, my dependency in AE for motion graphics stuff is not just a matter of being lazy, or not looking for alternatives. I’ve spent many hours trying out other programs to finally ditch AE, but it’s just not possible; the only one that can barely match it is HitFilm, and it’s SO slow in comparison that it would make me very slow for work, which in turn would make me less ideal to work with compared to other freelancers, which would result in me getting less work… Also, the whole market/ecosystem of plugins, scripts, templates, etc around Adobe products is so vast that it’s impossible to compete with that using other less known alternatives, paid or free. So I still use open source programs for my own projects, but for commercial stuff is not a matter of choosing what I prefer, I have to use whatever gets the job done faster.
Time really is money, and sometimes, even if the alternatives allow you to achieve the exact same results, the real question is: Can they do it faster? Or at least in the same time? Unfortunately, the answer is almost always no.
Again, this comes from my personal experience as a freelancer in the Ad Industry, in which everything has to be done now, there’s never enough time to experiment with other options, and they always expect you to deliver in specific (Adobe) file formats.
For digital painting alone, I truly believe that Krita is better than Photoshop and other paid programs, but some of us still don’t have better alternatives for most of the other programs in the Adobe Suite.
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This is true. Nuke is better but the price tag actually makes it worse to be viable. And other than after I can’t see real alternatives either.
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To be honest, I can never understand why a company would pirate software. I can understand individuals may, but for a company it is silly. The reason is many pirated software can come with viruses, trojans and other malware. Is it really worth the risk of your entire business being hijacked by hackers?
If someone wants software on the cheap, there is always the grey market. Effectively, many software companies realized that at the first world prices many software companies charge, everyone outside the 1st world will just pirate. So to prevent that, they offered lower cost software to these countries. These licenses then make it back to be resold in the 1st world in the grey market (though to note, you gotta be careful to be sure it is a reputable place, cause some may claim to be grey market but are black market). And since you can download the official installer, you don’t need to worry about viruses.
Now as for my opinion on why people don’t switch to open source. In general it comes down to 2 main reasons:
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The stigma, a lot of open source software is tied down with the stigma of being low quality software. Many of which end up dropped or unmaintained. On top of that, many companies require that there be a corporate support contract. So if there are any issues, you can contact support for help. Not to mention, many support contracts go a few steps further. Some include priority bug fixes to priority feature requests. And some even accept outsourcing some of your work (at high price per hour but the option is there if you need something done ASAP). Now many open source software has now become commercialized and offer support contracts these days, but many don’t know about it. Not to mention, sometimes the ones providing the open source software is not the same company that is providing the support contracts. So that makes it even more confusing for people. Even more so with “approved vendor” lists. Where you gotta get both the software and the support company approved. Not to mention you gotta prove the software is here to stay and won’t be dropped(again the stigma, even though closed source can be dropped too and unlike open source no one can fork and continue)
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The PR. Open source really doesn’t have a PR department like many corporations do. They get people stuck up on ideas like “The industry standard”, or “You get what you pay for”. Which makes people skeptical. So much so that they could be having 20 issues with their proprietary software, but they moment they run into a single issue with open source, they give up. Because to them it seems too good to be true. So there must be a catch and when they find it they go back to the “industry standard” no matter how broken it is. On top of that, many corporate contracts come with kickbacks. So while open source may be free, the one paying for it is the company. And why does a manager care how much a company pays? As long as it is in the budget they were given, there is no problem. Instead you can get a bunch of freebies personally from the marketing of the software. So as the saying goes, what is better than free? Making a buck.
There is also a reason why many software vendors give out free or cheap licenses to students and schools. Because in doing so, they insure that entire curriculum is based on their software. And once people get used to something, it is hard to switch.
Not to mention, the media doesn’t really cover open source much. Unless you are google, pretty much even a major release of the linux kernel isn’t good enough to make even tech blogs. I remember a tech blog writer a while back wrote this long article about how he supports open source and all, but then goes on to say open source has failed cause no one knows about it or cares. To which is was pointed out he hasn’t even written a single article on the tech blog to promote any open source software. And at best the whole site has maybe 1-2 articles per year for open source, mostly about chrome or firefox and that is about it.
Of course maybe the problem isn’t just the reporters in themselves, but simply that again. Open source doesn’t really have a PR department who will bombard these blogs with news of releases. Maybe what the open source community needs is for people who don’t know how to program to keep bugging the media to publish open source article news.
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As someone who uses Linux since 2005 only but does have to use Windows for such work:
First of all there is Integration. For example if you buy a drawing tab like the Wacom Intous, you get Software like Clip Studio Paint for free. With an Pixiv Premium Account, you also get Clip Studio Paint for free. So most people don’t even pay for their drawing software and if they don’t save money, most people don’t get why they should switch in the first place. Lots of drawing courses (Like Pixiv Sensei and others) provide material that you can’t use without the software.
Pixiv Sensei forces you to use Clip Studio Paint at some point because they provide you with images you’re supposed to analyze and modify and they come in a format Krita can’t read. And this is not the only occasion.
Then there is language issues. Krita is available in german, but the Krita documentation is not. Krita Documentation is available in Japanese, but only the official one on the homepage, pretty much no 3rd party documentation exists in japanese. The installer of Krita is only in English and Chinese (which does scare lots of japanese, as they assume the software itself most likely is not in japanese too).
Krita works best on Linux but Linux is not an option for most people due to lots of issues. For example, again, the translation of GNOME/KDE in Japanese hovers at around 75% while using mixed-languages even inside one System Setting and stuff like that. Not to mention the Xorg Wayland mess. Wacom Tabs behave different in Xorg and Wayland for no specific reason and so on.
Pretty much all big artists in Japan use either CSP or SAI, its hard to convince an beginner who doesn’t care about Free Software at all to use a different program than his favorite artist.
And even if you have to pay for the Software, hands down, 50$ for a software you most likely use for several years is nothing.
So the better question is, why should people switch to FLOSS Software for creative work? The money they save is marginal (especially for companies) and even though Krita is excellent, depending on your workload, CSP is better. CSP is bad from a license standpoint, but from a technical standpoint CSP is excellent and ahead of Krita in several years of development in lots of aspects.
So why use the worse software? Most people who use FLOSS Software on a desktop use it for ideologic reasons and most people don’t care about ideologic reasons in terms of software and in some cultures like japan, that is a bad thing. They think you’re incompetent.
If you get a CSP file from a company to edit and you tell them, you can’t open it, they will think that your to stupid to do your job or you’re willingly be a burden to everyone in the society.
Everyone can just do his job put you’re the special snowflake who is incompatible and so you’re just getting ignored.
CELSYS is developing Clip Studio Paint and 130 people work for them. They would wonder why you want them to be jobless.
The “real” world is not as simple as the FLOSS world, the FLOSS world is a bubble and as soon as you’re leaving western culture, things get very complex.
I’ve never met a single Japanese person using Linux or Matrix/Riot. Even the Maintainer of the Vine Linux Project (the only Japanese Linux Distribution) uses Windows 10 as his main machine. Tell a Japanese “I don’t use LINE, i use Matrix/Riot/Element because my data is important”. They will reply “ok”, turn around and leave. They don’t care what you do and its extremely unpolite to tell others what they should do. You can’t just tell people “Use matrix/element” or “Use krita”, they will think you’re arrogant, egocentric and a burden for the society.
And you kinda are. Sounds harsh and most likely i’ll get a shitstorm but for japanese, you are. If you think FLOSS is the way to go, its your thing. Use what works for you but don’t complain why others don’t want to live the same way as you. They have their reasons and its not your job to change them. You will sound like some guy from a religious cult to them and rather fear them away than make them think about using Krita.
Use Krita, create awesome drawings and if people like your drawings, they will start to want to use Krita too. Make some YouTube Videos where you draw awesome artworks with Krita and they will want Krita. And you have to do it in Japanese. If you want them to use Krita, you have to adjust to them and not tell them, to adjust to you.
You wan’t them to use FLOSS because you want to see them using it because you like FLOSS. This is the big mistake here. You want them to change because you would benefit. They only listen to you, if you show them how it improved your art and by sharing your experience in a way others think “Hey, i want to improve too, i will follow his example”.
Be a good example, not an annoyance. Thats the way to success in non-western countries.
I get the points and there are good reasons mentioned but the way this is written makes me feel like I should not be allowed to exist because I’m the worst of society and utter garbage.
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How sad if you think Promotion or videos are not important. They are covering, tips, resources, techniques, timelapses… Anyway i accept it.
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Also a lot of the things you mentioned are just as true for commercial software, like language support or interoperability. What’s funny is that I found interoperability in OSS better most of the time.
Doesn’t make the points less valid though.
However I strongly disagree with the “burden on society” part and that we want to force people into FOSS to make us feel good and to benefit from it. No one is forcing anyone to use FOSS and we are not running around like missionaryies preaching the ways of FOSS. People use what gets the job done, whatever that is.
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The translation team is severely underpowered if you know anyone who wants to volunteer for Japanese translation please ask them to join KDE translation team.
CSP is not available in my native language, or for that matter it is not even available in any of the 22 local language that my country has, nor it is available on my operating system of choice, so it is worse than useless rubbish for me 
Krita is available in atleast 2-3 of those, and I am working on making the UI 100% in at least one language, only 20% of it is left. Everybody has different take and experience
I understand your view point and as @Takiro pointed out nobody is forcing anyone to use FOSS. Use whatever works for you.
But I must say if people worried about what other might say about their choice and style of doing work they won’t be able to use anything. They would be stuck like sheep who just follow the herd. I mean what is the point in developing or even thinking about krita because everyone else looks down upon you for using it right. It is not just about ideology at that point.
Coincidentally if I remember correctly the first book about krita was from Japan in Japanese. Someone had published a book about how to use krita, I think it was around 2.8 or 2.9 @scottyp may remember it. I wonder if the author had to go through immense societal pressure to write it.
Edit: I also think this thread has run past its course. No point in keep on circling to the same arguments. So if it is okay we can close this topic.
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I agree here, for example, I know LibreOffice supports old MS Office documents better than MS Office does. Cause you know, to MS, old software doesn’t make money so it is not uncommon for commercial companies to stop supporting old stuff. In comparison, for OSS (as long as it is an active project), there will always be someone contributing to make sure these things work.
Uhm, I don’t think there is that much difference for this specific thing between western and eastern cultures. I mean end of the day, CSP and Sai are software made by Japanese companies. It is not uncommon for anything made locally to be popular in local areas due to strong ties and patriotism. Aka, it is no more different than an ideological religion as well.
Kind of like how there is a ton of Japanese brand smartphones in Japan, but they are virtually non-existent outside of Japan.
There are many such cases in the western world as well.
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Translated at DeepL
I am Japanese.
If you look hard enough, you might find some, but there is nothing to suggest that all Japanese people think badly of those who insist on FLOSS software. At least I don’t. We should not lump them together as a nation and talk about them.
I have never heard of any painter choosing CSP or SAI out of patriotism. I used to use CSP in the past, but simply because it was convenient.
I think Japanese branded smartphones are domestic, but SAI and CSP are inappropriate as examples because there are many users overseas.
I didn’t want the word “Japanese” to be used in a strange way, so I interjected.
It’s odd for me since I downloaded krita without knowing the philosophy of open source. I viewed krita as an art software before anything else.
When someone mentions Blender today, the general person would think of:
3D modelling program
Free
Donut!!!
A person using linux would probably add “opensource” to that list. Most people view and judge Krita as an art software and will use it based off its features.
===
Another point to add to the list of why Krita is sidelined:
A portion of the western art community “advertise” or reccomend Krita as a beginner program. 
While SAI and CSP are used oversees, in the example given, sending someone a CSP clip file oversees would not be that acceptable either. Because the “industry standard” is Adobe.
I am also not sure what you mean by Japanese being used in a weird way. As I made it pretty clear that this isn’t something limited to Japan or Japanese. It is simply how all people are. Favoring local stuff is a common human nature thing.
Of course that doesn’t mean that people will choose a product simply because it is local. But that doesn’t change that it increases the likeliness of one choosing said product.
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They probably mean they prefer local software, there is a better word for it but I can’t remember it right now. This is something I noticed in my country too and it often has legal reasons (like EU Data protection act or other things like license) mostly customer protection which is pretty strong here compared to other countries (or products from there). It has nothing to do with actuall patriotism (especially since where I live patriotism is seen as negative since it historically quickly leads to xenophobia and ultimately fascism). However maybe there are people chosing it for that reason but I never heard of it here.